The idea is that this spot should be a conversation about your important and unique thoughts on the novel, so when you post, respond to what others have said and add something new to the conversation. Support your discussion with quotes from the text and discussion or analysis of those passages. Do not simply summarize the events of the novel. Remember that you must post four times. Proofread carefully because I will not approve poorly edited comments, and you will not receive credit for them. Postings for this book are due August 31. Difficulty in posting is not an excuse for lateness.
CONGRATULATIONS ON making it to the final book of the summer! I’ve been enjoying reading your comments on the novels. Keep up the good thinking. As you read this play, think about what makes a play different from a novel, and how those differences help us to understand the reading.
The idea is that this spot should be a conversation about your important and unique thoughts on the novel, so when you post, respond to what others have said and add something new to the conversation. Support your discussion with quotes from the text and discussion or analysis of those passages. Do not simply summarize the events of the novel. Remember that you must post four times. Proofread carefully because I will not approve poorly edited comments, and you will not receive credit for them. Postings for this book are due August 31. Difficulty in posting is not an excuse for lateness.
21 Comments
Maddie Thomas-Little
8/19/2015 01:05:27 am
I am only a few pages into the play; however, Torvald and Nora Helmer appear to encompass the classic husband and wife stereotypes of their time. Immediately, Ibsen portrays Nora as a frivolous “spendthrift” housewife who lives in her own fluffy world filled with laughter and macarons solely dependent on her husband’s bank account (Page 12).Torvald expresses the stingy qualities of a banker and constantly reminds Nora she “can’t spend money recklessly” (Page 12). Nora’s helplessness and the way Torvald views his wife as a featherhead makes it painful to read. I wonder if Nora will ever wake up and see her life is as suppressed as her budget.
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Brooke Rollston
8/19/2015 01:58:13 am
The relationship of Torvald and Nora Helmer has also been something I have taken an interest in. Their relationship and slight hints to its troubles in the past are the very fist introductions to the play and I feel as though that may be something to be made a point of. At first, I was slightly irritated and shocked at how Torvald treated Nora as a "poor little girl" and as if she did not have the capability to do things on her own and needed constant supervision (page 8). However, as Maddie said, I did take into consideration the time period and realized this is typical for a husband and wife in this time. It will be interesting to see if their relationship changes at all throughout the play and if the "hard times" will be touched on a little more and what that was like for their marriage (Page 8).
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Gabby Cutler
8/19/2015 02:09:35 am
I could not agree more with Maddie's disgust of Ibsen's stereotypical characters. Reading this play makes me truly appreciative of the modern world we live in. Women today are able to support themselves and provide for their families unlike Nora, the banker's wife. The first scene describes an obedient, ditsy Nora begging her husband for money. This scene makes Nora seem shallow. Yet it is clear as she interacts with the widow in the next scene, she is caring. I get the impression Nora is unaware of the world outside of her wealthy, secure home, based on the fact the widow says to her, "It some times happens, Nora" (Scene 3). Nora does not believe there is loveless marriages and poverty in the world. I wonder if she might really be that clueless or if she uses her ignorance to mask something else entirely.
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Marisa Carmean
8/30/2015 05:33:36 am
I agree with all three of these comments and I would like to move towards the relationship between Nora and her children. I was reminded very much of the book "The Help" because of the way the children are raised. Just like in "The Help", Nora has the easy task of playing with the children, while the Nurse does the rest of the raising. The roles of family during this era have always made me cringe, because parents are not always there for the children, so the young are taught by example of the nurses. Sometimes the parents do not agree with what the children learn, so they punish the caretakers, even though it is the parents' fault for failing to raise their own children. Nora calls her kids "nice little dolly children", because all she sees in them are little toys that she can play with (pg. 19). Ibsen portrays stereotypes in Torvald and Nora's relationship, along with Nora and her children.
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Brooke Rollston
8/20/2015 10:46:33 am
Nora, portrayed and treated as an empty-headed woman, proves to be anything but. Rather than living the life of a stereotypical woman of her time, she reveals her true self: a thoughtful, intelligent, and understanding woman who "before all else [is] a reasonable human being, just as [Torvald] [is]" (Page 64). I find it very interesting that Henrik Ibsen, a man, has written about a woman who stands for herself and thinks for herself, this being against everything known and practiced in his own time. This play has a very strong message, encouraging women to go against what others think they are limited to due to their gender.
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Marisa
8/30/2015 05:53:37 am
Brooke is very correct is claiming Nora to be an intelligent person, however, Ibsen does a fantastic job of describing the obliviousness of women in society during this era. Nora breaks the law and she fails to realize the seriousness of her actions because she is naive and "does not know much about law" (pg.25). She only hides this behavior because of the fear that her husband would disapprove. Women did not participate in politics or issues in that time, so Nora believed what she did was okay because she "did it for love's sake" (pg. 25).
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Brooke Rollston
8/20/2015 11:17:47 am
I often do not pay much attention to the title of a book or play because I do not like having preconceived ideas of what it will be about. However, I did this time and was surprised at how much my interpretation of the title changed. Previously, I had thought the title to reflect a life of leisure and perfection, a woman living in her dream world with no worries or complications of any sort. Having finished the play, I now have a completely new understanding of the meaning and view it now as the description of a daughter and wife subscribed to a life of puppetry. Nora, both as a daughter and wife, had been "played with just the as [she] used to play with [her] dolls"; she spoke and moved only as others wished her to and was pressured into playing the part and was trapped in her plastic mold created by everyone around her (Page 62). It is sad to think of someone being manipulated and formed to meet the needs and desires of all but his or her own. This is the life Nora has lived and the only one she has ever known.
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Maddie Thomas-Little
8/22/2015 11:18:56 pm
As I continue to read this play, I have noticed a strong sense of pride in Nora and Torvald’s characters. When Mrs. Linde questions Nora on whether Torvald was informed the money used for Nora and Torvald’s trip to Italy was not from Nora’s father, Nora becomes highly defensive and explains, “how painful and humiliating it would be for Torvald, with his manly independence to know that he owed [her] anything! it would upset [their] mutual relations altogether”(Page 22). Nora exposes Torvald’s character as a prideful husband who is dominant and takes care of any affairs outside of his household. However the irony in his manliness is evident as Nora explains to Miss Linde why she did not use her father’s money; she proudly tells her, “it was a tremendous pleasure to sit there working and earning money. It was like being a man”(Page 23). Nora took pride in feeling like Torvald was not the only one who could support their family. I wonder if the couple’s pride may cause conflict in the mere future and “upset their mutual relations”.
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Gabby Cutler
8/23/2015 04:08:27 am
As I original suspected, Nora's ditsy behavior was simply an act. Nora is a proud and powerful women. She is a modern-minded women trapped in the middle ages. Nora cannot understand why women have to rely on men for their own safety and provisions. While being blackmailed by Mr. Krogstad, Nora asks, "Is a daughter not to be allowed to spare her dying father anxiety and care? Is a wife not to be allowed to save her husband's life?" (Page 55). That mindset will help Nora face the grief she feels for her father and the worry she feels for her husband.
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Brooke Rollston
8/23/2015 04:58:46 am
I have noticed an interesting connection between the relationship of Torvald and Nora and how that relates to the state of the dress Nora wears to the ball. In the beginning, Nora is frantic and worried for her relationship thinking of what will become of it once her husband knows of her secret. As she worries over this, she is also rushing to fix her dress which is in "very much want of mending" (Page 29). Later in the play, the dress is very well mended and is worn by Nora and all is well since, as far as they know at that time, her worries have been pushed off to the next morning. After the ball, Torvald has knowledge of her secret and has forgiven her completely while she is in the beautiful dress. However, after Nora has "[Taken] off [her] fancy dress", she talks to her husband and tells him she is leaving him [Page 61].Though the dress is in tact, it no longer fits the occasion just as Nora no longer belongs in the relationship with Torvald.
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Kayleigh Newman
8/23/2015 05:25:27 am
I like this, Brooke. Good thinking!
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Kayleigh Newman
8/23/2015 05:36:42 am
In the beginning of the play, I made some connections to another production. The characters of Nora and Torvald remind me quite a bit of Mr. and Mrs. Darling of "Peter Pan". Both Torvald and Mr. Darling are very uptight. Torvald gets goes from being a "barrister to the bank manager"(page5). The family now has more money and Nora is somewhat child-like and feels the need to spend that money. This makes her husband feel uneasy and he even calls her a "spendthrift" (page 2). Between Torvald being uptight, and Nora being loose-handed with resources and money, in addition to being fairly spastic, laws the foundation for marriage problems and provides a firm lead into the deeper problems within the script. There is already some coldness and friction between the two of them. With his new occupation, Torvald seems to be too good to spend time with his wife, and treats as if she's quite young by calling her a "little songbird" and always putting his paperwork before family time.
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Kayleigh Newman
8/23/2015 05:53:27 am
The tides quickly turn when a demon from Nora's past comes threatens her credibility as a wife and person. Krogstad committed a wrongdoing at the bank but wants to remain in his position. He holds information over Nora to intimidate her. He also utilizes forceful words when he says: "You will be so kind to see that I am allowed to keep my subordinate position in the bank" (page 20). To me, it appears that he is taking advantage of the fact that she is an immature woman, in 1800s England, a time in which woman did not have much say and/or power to begin with, and his position of working with Torvald, and his gender to assert power. Of course, gender roles were a big part of 1800s Europe in general, but Krogstad takes to a new level to get what he wants, as many (but not all) men did I'm sure. Ibsen most likely did this with the characters not just to be true to the time period, but to make the situation seem alarming. There aren't really any physical descriptions of the characters, however I imagine Krogstad to be tall and stocky with a booming voice, sinister laugh, a wide smile, and slicked-back hair. To me, if his personality were to be projected outwards, that's what it would look like. And perhaps that's Ibsen left out descriptions in the script so the reader could decide how the look of the character could aid the plot.
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Kayleigh Newman
8/23/2015 06:10:47 am
There are very distinct differences from books and plays. Both are fairly specific with their settings and characters, but plays more so. There are set directions that tell the reader exactly where every single set piece goes, the noises that are heard, when the characters appear and leave, etc. All of the elements are key to the fluidity of the show and the plot line. Costumes are just as important because they display emotions as well. Like how Brooke mentioned Nora's dress somewhat mimicked her emotions throughout the plot. The dress was in a pitiful state"need for mending" (psge 29), much like the one that would wear the dress. After some time, thought, and effort, the finished product was beautiful and like new. This is how Nora is at the conclusion of the play. She looks back upon her life and marriage and begins to think for herself and takes the bold risk of telling Torvald that they don't belong together.
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Kayleigh Newman
8/23/2015 06:28:10 am
When I finished the play, the title of it made so much sense to me. The play itself was not about actual dolls, or toys, or houses, but the feelings associated with dolls within doll houses is emulated. Nora has spent years in marriage in which she is controlled and unhappy. The same happened to her during her childhood with her father. She has been kind of told what to think and how to act which could be the reason she is fairly juvenile even as an adult--she's never HAD to think for herself or take responsibility for much of anything either. That is until Krogstad brings up her illegal mistake that could ruin life as she knew it. Because of Krogstad, she was forced to think for herself and she had to compose somewhat of a strategy. In the final conversation in the play, Nora tells Torvald that "[she has] been performing tricks for [Torvald.] That’s how [she] survived. [Torvald] wanted it like that. [Him] and Papa have done [Nora] a great wrong. It’s because of [him] [she's] made nothing of [her] life" (page 71). Nora had been trapped and because of her lack of advanced thinking, she was mentally more youthful like a doll. Thus, the title of "A Doll's House"
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Maddie Thomas-Little
8/24/2015 12:39:27 am
A relentless hunger for power is prominent in A Doll’s House. Between Helmer, and Krogstad, a voracious need for appraisal in their jobs as well as a demand for control in their homes are emulated throughout the play. The intensity of Krogstad's desire for a higher place in his career, and fear of losing his chance of promotion drives him to manipulation and blackmail. Alarmed by the slightest competition with Krogstad, Helmer is inclined to fire him as he explains to Nora that Krogstad “would make [his] position in the bank intolerable”(Page 46). The battle for power between the two men expose the undesirable actions taken when power becomes hope for a better future.
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Marisa Carmean
8/30/2015 11:12:37 am
Maddie is partially right about Krogstad's motives. He does not want to be removed from his position at the bank, so he will do whatever it takes to prevent his dismissal, but I believe his motives run deeper. In the end of the play he reunites with Mrs Linde, and afterwards, he sends Nora her bonds signalling surrender. Krogstad did not seek to secure his position at the bank because he wanted power, but because he believed the job was all he had left after his past crimes. He describes his reunion with Mrs Linde "as an amazing piece of good fortune", because he thought his banking job was the last good thing that would come of his life (pg. 52). Krogstad's motives are more than power, they are of finding any sliver of happiness possible.
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Gabby Cutler
8/27/2015 02:56:59 am
Like Maddie said, the desire for power is very strong through out the book. Though the men are willing to do anything to gain it, such as Krogstad's blackmail, it is the women who hold the real power. A simple dress could be the deciding fact whether or not women are excepted into society. The women hold true friendships with influential people. With power comes great scrutiny though. After receiving money, a suspicious Mrs Linde accuses Nora of taking money from Dr Rank. She suggests, "..you ought to make an end of it with Dr Rank" as well as boasts, "..do you suppose I don't guess who lent you the two hundred and fifty pounds"(Page 42). Rumors such as that is just something Nora has to deal with while trying to provide and protect her family.
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Maddie Thomas-Little
8/27/2015 03:22:36 am
Thank goodness Nora finally had a thought for herself. Nora’s slow development of independence throughout the play has made me realize how privileged I am in today’s society as a young woman. Although it is never too late to stand up for yourself, Nora was quite the late bloomer; but, cheers to Nora for finally realizing she “before all else [is] a reasonable human being, just as [Torvald] is”(Page 78). I admire her new curiosity and her courage to share her feelings with Torvald. I am happy Nora “ can no longer content [her]self with what most people say, or with what is found in books.[She] must think for [her]self and get to understand them”(Page 8). Nora’s rebellious act against society's views of women breaks away from her small doll house life and into a world full of truth and knowledge.
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Gabby Cutler
8/30/2015 03:11:40 am
I am impressed by the character development of Nora in this play. There is no shadow of the ditsy girl, begging her husband for more clothes. Nora grew into a strong, clever, independent woman through her journey. I was in agreement with Nora's decision to "stand alone if I am to understand myself"(Page 82). Before getting involved in a relationship, in order for it to be a healthy one, it is important to figure out who they are by themselves. Nora is ready to discover herself. Finally, it seems, she realizes her self worth, like Maddie mentioned. I am proud for Nora and the stand she took against her husband and consequently, society.
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Marisa Carmean
8/30/2015 12:01:05 pm
I was amazed how "A Doll's House" related to today's society. In the play, Nora struggled to find herself because all her life she followed the views of her father and her husband, but in the end she decided to take a journey on her own. Most teenagers today have a hard time discovering themselves, because they want to fit in with everyone else. Because we try to fit in, our personal views become mixed with the views of others to a point where we can no longer understand who we are. Nora finally discovers this truth and decides that she must "think over things for [herself] and get to understand them" (pg. 64). The only way to discover true feelings, is to follow in Nora's footsteps and separate from societies overbearing opinions.
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